TOR / LAD Trade

[MasterShonuff]

Blue Jays send:

P Joe Musgrove 1.5m '22 (paid by TOR);  4.4m '23
SS Marco Luciano pc-na


Dodgers send:

IF Jonathan Aranda pc-na
OF Oscar Colas pc-na


Dodgers give up 2 highly ranked prospects (BA has them in their top 100) in Aranda who has been a hit machine well over 300 past few seasons and Colas who is absolutely raking double AA pitching.
Dodgers add more talent to the SS pool.  We have a lot of players fantraxed as SS who really arent.  Really only have Pena, Mauricio and Estrada.   Musgrove needs no intro.

Thank you to the Blue Jays GM for the easy talks.  Welcome to NP!

[ForrestGreene]

TOR confirms. First move in NP! not sexy but very happy with it. we deal two solid pieces to bring in two specs we like long term. Never really been a fan of musgrove and didn't see him fitting our timeline. Musgrove is the tail of two halves; first half and second half, in 2021 and now in 2022. Luciano is moving down some spec boards, was top 5 when he was 17 and now ranks#39 as he gets older. Him being a little further away
i don't really care for that trend. Aranda/Colas are both hitting well this year in the minors and appear close to the majors which was important to us. These were the guys I sought out from LAD. Thanks LAD for the easy talks.

[JMAC]

I'm gonna veto. Best prospect by alot in Luciano and best MLB player as well for 2 upside pieces but Luciano alone is arguably worth more than the 2 kids IMO not taking away from their upside but consensus is Marco top 20 overall kid those guys are not.
Could also argue the 2 prospects alone are MAYBE worth Musgrove alone as he is a top 15 player in this format. Luciano is overkill or Joe is overkill either way.

Shop around before jumping into a deal , especially when dealing a top 20 prospect and a top 20 type SP


Not remotely close to me

[MasterShonuff]

Just in defense of the trade for other owners who may not have established an opinion yet.

Musgrove has never proven top 15 value. Last year per fantrax he was ranked 18th. This season he ranked 12th however has been on a steep downtrend last 2 months with ERA's at 4.24 last month and 5.09 in Aug. 1.5 months left in the season can easily fall out of top 15. All in all, Musgrove has had 1 good FULL fantasy season in his career. So Forrest is in his right to not be high on him.

Luciano is a regarded prospect. His highest level so far (A+) has a career bat line of .255/.324/.407 not necessarily living up to his potential. At 20 years old there is still high risk of him not performing to his talent.

Blue Jays are receiving an IF in Aranda who has a career minors avg of .299 most of those ABs in AA/AAA and has a career .293 in the Mexican pro leagues.
Colas had 730 PA in Japan with 28 HRs 116 RBI and .826 OPS and with 100 PA so far in AA has a 1.139 OPS
Overall Blue Jays were after team control and prospects who are MLB ready with proven background at the levels they have played at so far.

Just my perspective again. I respect our voting process!

[JMAC]

Just in defense of the trade for other owners who may not have established an opinion yet.

Musgrove has never proven top 15 value.  Last year per fantrax he was ranked 18th.  This season he ranked 12th however has been on a steep downtrend last 2 months with ERA's at 4.24 last month and 5.09 in Aug.  1.5 months left in the season can easily fall out of top 15.  All in all, Musgrove has had 1 good FULL fantasy season in his career.  So Forrest is in his right to not be high on him.

Luciano is a regarded prospect.  His highest level so far (A+) has a career bat line of .255/.324/.407 not necessarily living up to his potential.  At 20 years old there is still high risk of him not performing to his talent.

Blue Jays are receiving an IF in Aranda who has a career minors avg of .299 most of those ABs in AA/AAA and has a career .293 in the Mexican pro leagues. 
Colas had 730 PA in Japan with 28 HRs 116 RBI and .826 OPS and with 100 PA so far in AA has a 1.139 OPS
Overall Blue Jays were after team control and prospects who are MLB ready with proven background at the levels they have played at so far.

Just my perspective again.  I respect our voting process!

Older prospects from Japan,  Cuba etc haven't necessarily translated. Amanda shows he can hit but not much else. Colas may be Puig may be worse who knows. Pedigree and upside of Luciano is HUGE per scouts across the board.Mus Grove has struggled etc of late but broke out last yr and again this year is a top 15 to 20 arm on very affordable deal and is free this yr per deal

It's rather easily argued the 2 best pieces are both going to LA from my perspective at least 
At any rate just my 2 cents


At any rate is what it is, let votes happen and whatever shakes out , so be it

[thepetis]

Have to agree with JMAC and veto. I hate vetoes, but you can’t have a 2-for-2 with the obvious top two going to one team.

I remember that Pat marches to the beat of his own drum and usually does okay, but the return warrants one of the two, but not both. Even if Blue Jays are low on Musgrove and Luciano, not everyone is. So use that to your advantage and sell them to the teams that will pay up for them.

[alanv25]

Musgrove is sitting right now with a 2.98 ERA and 1.030 WHIP. Last year had a 3.18 ERA and 1.081 WHIP. Not great, but very good. He's streaky. For his ability and stats, he is worth much more than 1.5m this year and 4.4m next year.

I look at the mlbpipeline.com top 100 and neither Aranda nor Colas is in their top 100. An above average pitcher on a great contract is worth a lot more than 2 non-top 100 prospects. Sorry- I have to veto.

[Tucci905]

Veto, nice try on taking advantage of the new guy though.

[oldmancoffee66]

Situationally... Colas will certainly be in White Sox plans for 2023 (if not sooner) and Aranda has already had a taste in the show.

Luciano, realistically... 2025 as a real contributor.

I take the rankings with a grain of salt... they all have their bias. 

Rotowire has Aranda and Luciano #36 and #37 in their prospect rankings
Over at MLB.com Luciano is ranked #17 and Aranda is probably just outside of the top 100

Honestly, two guys I don't know alot about.

Colas is ranked #126 prospect at Rotowire and probably just outside the Top 100 on MLB.com which a bit undervalued IMHO

Musgrove #26 OVERALL on Rotowire which is a bit rich.

Aranda and Colas will/are likely to be real contributors in 2023.

I would like to see the Colas/Aranda side get a bit more, but I approve this trade.

[oldmancoffee66]

Looking back at my Trade of Lourdes Guriell in BTL... I netted 1.20, 2nd rd and 3rd, and two other picks. Also got Cespedes and Colas. It barely passed. I have a Colas bias TBH

Maybe come back with a revised offer.

I hate paying up for SP, but that is a sweet contract to be dealing as well.